Who won in this war ?
Neither side – it’s pretty much a draw. Each side can claim victory – the Hezbollah paralysed normal life in Israel for a month, killed 50 civilians in Israel and survived as a fighting force. The Israelis showed that it won’t turn the other cheek when attached, destroyed quite a lot of the massive Hezbollah military infrastructure in Lebanon and created the conditions for change in Lebanon. Both sides suffered losses and the war raises many questions for the Israelis and the Lebanese.
Interestingly and worryingly enough, Israel seems to be much more concerned with the question “Who won?” There seems to me to be something very immature, almost childish about this psychological need to say I won, he lost. There’s a lot of (false) pride and honour here, traits that we in Israel usually equate (with disdain) with the Arabs. But isn’t that what the psychologists say? – that we scorn in others those traits we will not admit in ourselves?
Hassan Nasrallah, in his televised address yesterday didn’t say that Hezbollah had won – he was his usual, calm, matter-of-fact televised self. Meanwhile the knives are being drawn in Israeli politics and media to find who is to blame for the failure. This while the official spokespeople keep claiming that Israel won. It’s time to stop playing cowboys and Indians, heroes and villains and just learn instead of looking for scapegoats and false victories. There’s a lot to learn and improve.
Interestingly and worryingly enough, Israel seems to be much more concerned with the question “Who won?” There seems to me to be something very immature, almost childish about this psychological need to say I won, he lost. There’s a lot of (false) pride and honour here, traits that we in Israel usually equate (with disdain) with the Arabs. But isn’t that what the psychologists say? – that we scorn in others those traits we will not admit in ourselves?
Hassan Nasrallah, in his televised address yesterday didn’t say that Hezbollah had won – he was his usual, calm, matter-of-fact televised self. Meanwhile the knives are being drawn in Israeli politics and media to find who is to blame for the failure. This while the official spokespeople keep claiming that Israel won. It’s time to stop playing cowboys and Indians, heroes and villains and just learn instead of looking for scapegoats and false victories. There’s a lot to learn and improve.
posted by David Lisbona | 2:42 PM
7 Comments:
Dear David
Just blogwatched you at my site. Have a good Sunday as far as possible.
Best wishes,
James
I completely agree that the notion of who won and who lost is juvenile. The true answer to this question, which is all that ultimately matters, has yet to be determined by the longer term outcomes of the conflict.
However, now that Nasrallah has done the predictable and announced Hezbollah victory, I think it is important to counter his statements.
Only the Muslims who have been consistently defeated in modern warfare could celebrate victory in a war in which they: (1) suffered far more loss of life, (2) suffered exceedingly more loss of property and infrastructure, (3) were occupied by the enemy which left their country only by choice and (4)will need to allow foreign soldiers to patrol their southern border. It seems that Nazrallah would only have considered complete elimination of Hezballah a defeat.
olmert lost, and that means the state of israel lost,
olmert need to get LOST and hide,
Untill now the arab world was afraid of israel, the lost every war they started untill today, where a "milita" was able to have a draw, - What does this tel IRAN? it tells them not to be afraid,
( they called the israeli bluff and now all the cards are on the table and it aint pretty )
Israel has a lot to fear now,
I hope that whoever takes over the prime minister and peretz will be able to do a better job
Bottom line
1. we went to war to get back our army personal. do we have them, NO ! that is a defeat
2. we went to war because we can beat them and teach them a lesson. did we ? NO
3. we went to war to disarm hezballah, did we ? NO
How any one can see ths even as a draw - boggles my mind
Hezbollah has won this war..i m saying this b/c in wars winning is all about achieving the goals and Hezbollah did.. A defeated Isreal started this war with two reasons: 1) Disarm Hezbollah 2) Rescue two soldiers captured by Hezbollah.. and you can see that neither of above is achieved! so who lost? offcourse Israel... and in the begining of this war Priminister of Isreal didnt want the presence of International Peace forces but now he is crying for them!
Claiming victory reflects the rather low expectations of the Arab world when it comes to warfare. Nevermind that the only reason Israel withdrew was due to political pressures. It seems that Arab countries define victory as the absence of complete defeat and this likely stems from their previous experiences in war against Israel. It should be noted that this criterion for military victory is not found in other cultures. In the long run, Israel will be considered the winner because the terrorist groups such as Hezbollah will think a little longer before provoking the Israelis through suicide bombings etc. This is ultimately what Israel wants and needs. I guess time will tell.
I find it laughable when Arabs point how how remarkable it is that a relatively small group of terrorists were able to stave off defeat against the Israeli army. Let's remember the bigger picture here and not allow the Arab propoganda machine to paint a false picture of being the the underdog in the Middle East. Israel stands alone as a Jewish state amongst the following Islamic nations: Sudan, Libya, Egypt, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan,...
So let's not feel too sorry for the poor Arabs in the region that have to put up with the Israeli threat.
well -
From an Arab perspective, Israel turned naked in this war, the mighty Israeli force appeared in different color now, we can't call IDF losers because they didnt retrieve their soldiers (stated but not intended objective) but they seem losers in not being able to eliminate Hizbullah.
Is Hezbollah a loser or winner?
sweeping all related reported, we cant say that their fighting capabilities brought to a demise, nor did IDF provided any evidence that it left the Hizb-force with significant damage. in terms of popularity, winners indeed, but as war receded there was alot of reprimand by main stream Lebanon and leading Arab states, but it seems Hizbollah is bulling again.
A word of advice to American neoEvangs; I can tell which posts are urs, arrogant/simple-minded/confused, either get some education or go to Haggard, let him have his stake of ur whitey asses.
leave it between us the Semitics, or the Semitics and those who claim to be, let us do the scoring and spare us ur barking.
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